The Fun Your Marriage Is Missing and What to Do About It | Epic Marriage Podcast with Tammy Hill, LMFT

Most couples do not lose each other in a single blow. They lose each other in the thousand small moments when they could have reached out but chose the phone, the show, or the silence instead. The laughter fades first. Then the flirting. Then the eye contact over dinner. By the time a couple realizes they have stopped having fun together, they are often sitting in a therapist's office wondering how they drifted so far apart. That slow fade is exactly what Tammy Hill, LMFT, has spent over two decades helping couples reverse.

In this episode of the Epic Marriage Podcast, she joins Nick and Alex Leyva for a conversation about why fun is not optional in marriage, how it builds the safety couples need for deeper connection, and what happens when phones replace people in the home.

Tammy Hill is a licensed marriage and family therapist who practiced for 22 years and helped develop the first healthy sexuality curriculum at BYU. She was invited by the Utah State Office of Education to build sexual education curriculum and served on a governor's task force to help parents across the state teach sexuality to their children. She currently teaches marriage and family courses at BYU Hawaii alongside her husband Jeff.

Nick and Alex host the Epic Marriage Podcast, where they combine Nick's academic training from BYU's School of Family Life with Alex's lived experience as a wife and mother of five. Together, they bring direct conversations about topics that most couples avoid. This episode is part of a new series exploring the role of fun and play in covenant marriage.

 Fun Is the Lubricant, Not the Dessert   

Couples in crisis tend to focus almost entirely on what is wrong. They rehash grievances. They revisit injuries. They want to solve the serious stuff first and get to the fun later. Tammy sees this pattern constantly in her practice, and she challenges it directly. She describes playfulness as the lubricant that keeps a marriage moving freely, not the dessert at the end of a perfect day. When couples make time for play, conversations move easier, physical affection feels more natural, and the overall energy between them shifts.

That does not mean ignoring real problems. It means recognizing that a marriage running only on problem-solving will eventually burn out. Tammy encourages couples who come to her for weekly sessions to skip a session occasionally and spend that same money doing something fun together instead. She has watched couples take up golfing, start playing pickle-ball, and rediscover activities they enjoyed before life got heavy. The problems do not disappear, but the couple suddenly has more positive energy to address them.

Nick and Alex confirm this from their own experience. They know what it feels like to slip into the exhaustion of five kids, busy schedules, and a calendar that runs every decision. Alex admits she has caught herself playing solitaire on her phone while Nick talks to her. Nick admits he has hidden behind his phone when he felt rejected. Neither of those habits build anything. Play does.

 Trustworthiness Is the Foundation for Everything Else   

Tammy makes an important distinction that many couples miss. Trust and trustworthiness are not the same thing. You might trust your spouse to handle the budget, pick up the kids, and fulfill a church calling. But trustworthiness goes deeper. It is the sense that your spouse is emotionally available, consistently showing up, and proving over time that they are who they say they are.

This matters because trustworthiness is the foundation for what Tammy calls sexual expansion. She shares the story of a couple where the husband wanted to explore new experiences in the bedroom but had been pushing past his wife's boundaries without her consent. The wife withdrew and stopped feeling safe. When the husband began showing up differently over a period of months, honoring her boundaries, staying emotionally present, and proving himself through consistent action, his wife eventually felt safe enough to try some of the things he had been asking for all along.

That pattern applies far beyond the bedroom. When a spouse feels truly safe, they are willing to be vulnerable, playful, silly, and open. Without that safety, couples protect themselves. They hold back. They stay guarded. Playfulness cannot thrive in a guarded marriage. It requires the kind of security that is earned over time through consistent, trustworthy behavior.

 Phones Are Now a Bigger Threat Than You Think   

Tammy shares a startling shift in the research. For decades, sex and money have been the two leading contributors to divorce. That is changing. Recent publications from the Gottman Institute now show that cell phone usage is creeping above both of those categories. The term "phubbing," which means snubbing your partner by being on your phone, has become a measurable threat to marital satisfaction.

The numbers among younger couples are alarming. People under 30 are spending an average of nearly six hours per day on their phones. That is almost a full-time job devoted to a screen instead of a spouse. Nick and Alex add their own experience to the conversation. They have intentionally kept a TV out of their bedroom for years and have noticed how much it changes the atmosphere of their home when screens are not the default.

Tammy's prescription is simple and specific:

1. Keep phones out of the bedroom entirely.

2. Put all devices away by dinner and stay present through bedtime.

3. Replace screen time with a nightly ritual of eye gazing and skin-to-skin contact for five to ten minutes.

4. Set a boundary together that the bedroom is for reconnection, not consumption.

She explains that within 20 seconds of holding each other with skin-to-skin contact, the brain releases oxytocin, dopamine, and endorphins simultaneously. These are the same bonding chemicals that activate during skin-to-skin contact with a newborn baby. For women in particular, new research shows that oxytocin is released three times more often through eye gazing alone. That means a simple, consistent nightly practice of holding each other and looking into each other's eyes can do more for a marriage than most couples realize.

 Create Your Own Version of Play   

One of the most practical takeaways from this conversation is Tammy's personal practice with her husband, Jeff. Each month, they designate a "Tammy Day" and a "Jeff Day." On your day, you fill it with as much pleasure as you want, and your spouse goes along for the ride. That includes activities outside the bedroom and inside it.

Because Jeff is less imaginative in the bedroom than Tammy, she created a bedroom menu for him. On his day, he can order anything from the menu. It gives him options without the pressure of having to generate ideas, and it gives her a way to communicate what she is comfortable with in advance. They also play small games like Family Feud, where the loser has to make dinner. These are not elaborate date nights. They are simple, repeatable rituals that keep joy and playfulness alive.

The deeper point behind all of these ideas is that every person was designed with the ability to create. Nick ties this back to identity. As sons and daughters of God, couples have the capacity to build something new and enjoyable at any time. The question is not whether you can afford to play. The question is whether you can afford not to.

If your marriage feels like a business arrangement with occasional affection, it may be time to stop solving and start playing. Put the phone down. Look each other in the eye. Ask your spouse what sounds fun. Then go do it, even imperfectly.

Listen to the full conversation with Tammy Hill, LMFT on the Epic Marriage Podcast. For resources created for temple-sealed couples who want their marriage to reflect its eternal significance, visit YourEpicMarriage.com. And check out Tammy Hill's book Replenish at TammyHill.com for a guided experience in building a thriving sexual relationship within your covenant marriage.

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